Saturday, October 11, 2008

Personal Responsibility



by Mary

A reader of this blog is upset because their posts are not being allowed on this blog. I am sure it is not because she is a "rational Christian, higher-degreeed-but-always-home-when-my-kids-are-home, Southern Baptist mother and educator, who has left at least five comments, very well put (I am a published author) comments". She has likely been denied because of a link to a website. This post is in response to her latest diatribe.

My question to those Christians that are registered
Democrats - how can you affiliate with a party who favors abortion? How is that following the Word of God? By supporting abortion over the last 35 years, the Democratic party has supported the murder of 50 million unborn babies.

In this reader's opinion, we are not to harm others. Does that include a person whose intent is to harm? Do you let them attack or do you defend yourself? After 9/11 should we not have defended ourselves? Defended our allies?

I support social programs that promote self reliance. I am not opposed to helping the "least of these" who need it, but I do have a problem with those that live off the government because they are unwilling to help themselves. In my opinion, social programs promote an attitude of deserving the assistance given by these programs because of who they are, or where they were born, or what their race is. If a social program helps someone get on their feet and allow them to support themselves, then I'm all for it. Social programs should be used as a hand up, not a
perpetual hand out.
I have a dear friend, Pat, who raised her children by herself because her husband was in jail on drug charges. She was on these social programs and took advantage of the educational programs that were offered. She now owns her own business and can support herself. She provides child care for families who find themselves in the same situation she was in. And I know that she is a blessing. But these people who continue to procreate just so they can get more money from the government, well therein lies the problem.

I appreciate any prayers for me to be opened to the Bible, especially Ephesians 1:18 "that the eyes of my heart may be enlightened". I respect others relationship with the Lord, as I expect you to respect mine.

So if you find that your thoughts have not been posted on this blog, please do not be offended. A positive suggestion would be for you to start your own site where you can use the "very well put comments of a published author."

38 comments:

Jeremy said...

Question for Republican Christians: How can you support a war that has taken tens of thousands of innocent lives in Iraq? How can you support another one that has taken thousands of lives in Afghanistan? How do you support two presidents (Bush and McCain) that have advocated war in Iran?

Are the lives of women, children and innocent men less precious and than the lives of fetuses?

How about more than the lives of stem cells that will be discarded anyway? Sometimes I think you all on the Right are far more interested in protecting Zygotes and unborn cells than you are actual living people.

House of Brat said...

"My question to those Christians that are registered Democrats - how can you affiliate with a party who favors abortion?"
1) The Democratic Party does not try to make decisions for other people, including women, unlike yourself.
2) When did Christianity become a cult, where everyone must hem and toe the line?
3) What makes you qualified to make decisions for other people?

wildlifer5 said...

You may have a point Brat. Most of the Democrats I know and have discussed this with, would never have an abortion and don't "favor" it. They do however believe in allowing the choice for others.
As a fiscal conservative and social libertarian, I believe there are ways to allow choice, but lower the number of abortions obtained.
But that would require a compromise between the two factions and a civil society, but we seem to have moved far past anything that could be called a civil society.

Filius de Paulus said...

OK I am a registered Democrat and a Catholic. I registered to vote two years before I became Catholic and I just haven't cared to change it, I'm more of an independent. I would agree that a Christian shouldn't be a registered Democrat, but at the same time they shouldn't be registered Republican either, well at least not a Catholic. The Church (Catholic that is) falls against abortion, but then too she (the Church) is against the death penalty (which Republicans support) and the war in Iraq. Now, moving on to the whole personal responsibility thing, in a nation as wealthy as ours there is no reason that a person should be denied preventative care because they cannot afford it, or those who have lost their jobs shouldn't get a leg up from their fellow brethren for a short time. I have no idea where people get this high and mighty attitude that all those who receive government help abuse the system, LESS THAN 10% abuse the system. When you meet a person who receives government assistance, and if you wanna meet some come to the south-side of Chicago I can show you plenty, then you will see the face of a people who are not proud of it but they need it until they can find a job, or because the job they have won't even pay a living wage. And as far as personal responsibility, it funny how people tout that term for their own people but not when it comes to Iraq, let's let them have "personal responsibility" or maybe if a person has a child with a "birth defect" lets let that person take care of their own child, why should I have to pay taxes to help them, it's all about "personal responsibility" right? Well then let just let the border states worry about immigration, I live in the Midwest so I could care less about them, let em have "personal responsibility" right, no there is no common sense in that position. You don't know EVERY person on welfare, corporations receive "welfare," college students receive it (subsidized loans and grants), I went to private school and my mom (a single mom by the way) still paid property taxes to fund the public school system. In fact my household receives it because my mom is a government employee and so is paid by the government. If we really want to talk about "personal responsibility" lets get rid of fire, police, and military protection and use our own "personal responsibility" to protect just our household, because that's near what you would advocate. You don't know who receives government aid, most of them are hard working honest Americans so stop marginalizing them with this "personal responsibility" bull-crap because that's not Christian.

Jeremy said...

I have another question for the Christian Palin supporters out there (is there any other kind?)...

We've seen the McCain/Palin supporters have shouted "terrorist!" and "off with his head!" and "traitor!" etc. McCain/Palin have said nothing to specifically address those comments. And that's fine...

However, the latest report is that someone at a McCain/Palin rally held up a monkey with an Obama sign on him. Then when the camera focused on him, he took it off and handed the monkey to his son.

So my question is, are you guys ok with this? Do you understand how the "Obama is different, be afraid of him, he pals around with terrorists" isn't just political speak, but thinly veiled cultural attacks, and in the case with the monkey (and other examples) non-veiled racism?

Nevermind the Christians-for-war stuff, please explain to me how this latest example equates with Christian values.

Tami: Blog Creator and Administrator said...

jeremy,

let me ask you a question? since a crazy man that works for Obama has been threatening my life, does that mean all supporters of Obama wish to kill me?

If what you are suggesting in your latest comment is true--that we all believe this way and are just racist, etc...then I am to assume that you all wish to do what that man advocates.

I hope you get my point. Just because someONE or a few in a party say or do something, it certainly doesn't mean the entire party endorses it.

Filius de Paulus said...

Tami,
It not that anyone, well at least not me, says that the Republican Party supports what these lunatics were yelling at the Mc Cain-Palin rallies, the problem is that he (McCain), she (Palin), and the vast majority of the rest of the nation knew there were people who don't like Obama because he is a Black man (or as some crazies think, an Arab) and the McCain camp took that and ran with it, insinuating he was less than American. As a Black man myself, I already know how much people think Blacks aren't capable of being patriotic or we are considered "non traditional" that's why I can't stand when people talk about "traditional" Americans because I know that does not include the vast majority, if not all, of Black America. The McCain camp. knew what they were doing and now they have their hands full with it and that's what they deserve. Republicans do have a BAD habit of portraying the opponent as unpatriotic or unAmerican or different than "us," whoever that is (I can tell you for a fact most Republicans don't stand for African American values and seemingly don't care). So, it's not that the GOP supports racism but their candidate (McCain) has fueled the silent fire of racism that sits within their base and as children say "that's what they get."

Tami: Blog Creator and Administrator said...

If much of what you said were true, I might address it. But all of my black friends, and I do have many, would say you are dead wrong.

I guess, by your standards, Obama would agree with the threats this man is making also? I mean, Obama has said, even about Hillary, some of the most racist comments I have heard. YOUR party, sir, is the party bringing up race. I haven't seen one comment here from a Republican or a conservative Democrat that has been racist....you guys are the ones hurling the racist comments.

Obama's "less than American" issues come from nothing to do with the color of his skin, although you would all love to make it about that. Frankly, I am weary of, every time a true issue is brought up, your side runs crying and citing racism. It's an excuse to not answer the real issues! If I thought my party leaders were racist IN THE LEAST, I'd stay home. I sure as heck wouldn't vote for the racist on the other side. We all know what's going on here, and we aren't takin' the bait.

Now if you wanna talk REAL issues, then lets get to it and stop wasting our time.

Susy said...

Tami, what is "not real" but what people are discussing here?

I'm sorry a supposed Obama employee is threatening you. Really, I am. Have you contacted his campaign and let them know? Have you forwarded the messages to them? I would also recommend calling the police.

I think what people are trying to say here, and what I'm going to articulate--is that Sarah Palin specifically addressed a large group last Monday morning and gave a speech about how Obama "palled around with terrorists" and the group became very aggitated. Someone yelled "TRAITOR!" another yelled "TERRORIST" and yet another yelled "KILL HIM". I've watched this clip several times. I heard this stuff. I can't believe Ms. Palin didn't hear it. And even if she didn't, she had to have noticed the sound technician, who happened to be black, getting his own little angry mob heckling him with "NI***R" and "SIT DOWN BOY!" My question is WHY DID SHE NOT SHUT THESE PEOPLE DOWN, OR EVEN COMMENT?? To me, this says that at best, she is completely clueless about the responsibility she has taken--she has no CLUE how much power she has to incite people, and she DID incite them, and at worst, she agrees with them, or saw it as "Hey! This means we're winning! Or WOW. LOOK HOW MUCH POWER I HAVE." Did she say "Hey, that's not cool". Or, "Come on guys, that's not what we're about." No. She did NOTHING. And NOTHING is what would have happened if the Secret Service hadn't been called in to investigate the death threats against Obama. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that's why McCain took it down a notch or two a few days later, and even discouraged the racist heckling. But why couldn't Palin see this herself???? Why did she allow that to go on without so much as an uncomfortable snicker?

I'm SCARED. Honestly, I could deal with McCain if I had to. But having that woman a heartbeat away from the presidency is very, very, very scary to me. She's like a 16-year-old girl who has never even driven a car before suddenly being asked to fly a commercial jet full of hundreds of innocent humans.

小魔 said...

You must understand how popular your blog has become, thanks to CNN. There are many reasons why people want to stay anonymous. Afterall, they're not here to talk about knitting. Do you know how people vote? They don't all sit in a town hall and raise their hands. Instead, each individual goes into a screened compartment and make their choices. Kudos to you for willing to reveal who you are and what you support; kudos to those who showed up on the TV during the conventions and speeches, but please respect and understand anonymous people DO stand behind what they believe in.

小魔 said...

I do believe people have the right to abortion. You can do whatever you want, others who are not Christians can do whatever they want. Otherwise, might as well make a legislation that says anyone who's not Catholic should go to jail. This is the ultimate goal of this whole deal, am I right? Why take the slow steps?

If I cannot abort if I'm being raped. Rest assured, I'll be crazy enough to commit suicide - two lives lost instead of one.

cjc said...

Gosh, golly-gee, Tami, an African-American man writes a post and you tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about. That's real chutzpah, girlfriend.

Why don't you respond to the questions about Iraqi civilian lives? I think that's a fair question for someone who's invested in an anti-abortion stance. And what does give you the right to decide what's the best way for everyone? I've been a committed Christian since before you were born - as long as you're younger than 45 - and I don't think I have the right to dictate what you should do - about birth control, prayer, abortion, or anything else - as long as you don't try to tell me what to do.

As far as people seeking and accepting help from the government, well not everyone has the physical, mental, or emotional resources to stand alone. Instead of pointing fingers at them, you should be thanking God that you are able to live without taking assistance - an "Attitude of gratitude" I believe it's called.

Besides, you guys don't mind giving huge tax breaks to people who make millions of dollars a year, why should you object to a few thousand for people who are trying to raise their kids - you know, the kids you don't want them to abort?

I guess it's the Republican version of the American Dream: Someday we'll look like Sarah Palin or Cindy McCain, and someday our husbands will be dashing war heroes and make millions. In the meantime we can pretend that Sarah is just like us.

It's called "magical thinking."

Tara said...

Wow! You must be exhausted from reading these comments, and then having to reply! I like many, saw your bit on CNN, and had to come check out your blog. I enjoy the positive comments, but to drained from the hatred and nonsense. I just don't get it. If Obama is chosen, I won't be running out to join the I hate Obama group, I will respect him as my president, and wish him the best. I just don't get this insaneness, is that a word? :o) - that our country has created. Seriously who would ever want to be president?! I actually feel sorry for which ever candidate wins, not only do they have an extremely hard job, but they will instantly have half of the nation against them. It's just ridiculous! And hello to all you name calling, bashers out there, supposedly the liberal belief is that everyone deserves an opinion, and being different is good, however that seems to not apply to those who are completely opposite in their beliefs from yours. Practice what you preach! Which is: To each his own
Stay strong with the attacks Tami, and I really hope people are just talking smack with most of this crap, and really don't have that much hatred that they want to hurt you or cause harm to our country if something doesn't go their way. Get a life people! I'll stop rambling now. Go McCain! Whomever becomes the next president, I pray for their strength, because they will need it!

Cindy said...

I am a Christian. I'm not a registered democrat but I most always vote democrat. I see so little of Christ's message in the republican party. The biggest thing I see is pride, which is a sin. George Bush has been president for almost eight years and hasn't done anything about abortion. What needs to be addressed is ways to stop unwanted pregnancies in the first place. You can't tell a poor girl who has been raised in the inner city with, unfortunately, no moral upbringing to just practice abstinence only. It would be nice if it worked that way but it doesn't. If McCain is elected I still don't believe he will do anything about abortion either. There are too many problems in our country and the world going on right now to be exclusively a social issues voter. I can get my morals from my Church leaders and in my own home. I don't need the government to provide that for me. Thanks for hearing both sides.

Alan said...

I just don't get it. First McCain picks Sarah Palin as his running mate in order to reel in the Religious Right and hopefully attract women who supported Hillary Clinton. Then he sends her across the country as an attack dog to spread mistrust and hatred of Obama. And then.....I turn on CSPAN today and there Sarah Palin is, giving a speech on abortion. Why is it that with 22 days left until we vote, and with millions of people worried about there retirement savings, mortgages and jobs, that she is out there preaching to the choir while the campaign is 11 points down in the polls? Could somebody please explain the rationale of that strategy to me? I mean, I believe in the preservation of life, but isn't it time to abort McCain/Palin?

ConservVA said...

Tami face it,
Sarah Palin is a lesbian.

mpc said...

The reason I'm a democrat is BECAUSE of my Christian values. The most un-Christian people I have met in my life have been evangelical republicans.

I used to think that they were just misguided, and that they could be enlightened if someone, somehow was able to reach them.

But now I'm not so sure. I've come to the conclusion that certain people just have a deep seated NEED to have some kind of 'enemy' in their life. The Christina right, and the republican party, provide a long list of enemies to anyone who will listen. So these people are naturally drawn to them. They eagerly join the battle against the 'enemy', and doing so seems to fulfill them and give purpose to their lives.

But people who naturally lack the need for an 'enemy', or people who have internalized Christ's teaching to love your enemies (Matthew 5:44), are able to take a more reasoned view of the world and see that the democratic party is much more in line with Christ's teachings than the republican party.

mpc said...

"My question to those Christians that are registered Democrats - how can you affiliate with a party who favors abortion?"

I'm a Christian Democrat and I find that statement extremely offensive! No one 'favors' abortion! We believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and RARE. If it were illegal then we'd go back to the days of coat-hanger abortions in back alleys. So I could ask you an equally offensive question: "How can you republican Christians affiliate with a party that favors back alley coat-hanger abortions?"

The Christian Right and the Christian Left (yes, we do exist) need to come together to find ways we can agree upon to reduce abortion. This never ending struggle over Roe vs. Wade isn't getting us anywhere.

jimmywallback said...

When Tom Delay was the speaker of the house, he personally killed a bill that would have provided protections to the "employees" in the garment shops of Saipan. These "employees" are recruited from other countries and basically become slave labor.

The ones young enough and pretty enough are forced into prostitution and when they become pregnant (surprise) they are forced to abort the baby in order to keep "working".

You remember Tom Delay, he was the one that declared the Democratic party "irrelevant" and is now facing campaign finance charges in Texas.

To the Republican party, abortion is only a wedge issue to fire up the right wing base. They had a power block on both houses of Congress and the Presidency for six years and not once did they pass legislation to overturn Roe v. Wade.

It is sad that more people do not recognize that.

WRG said...

I am now visiting your blog every day. The first thing I do is turn off the sound, to avoid hurting my ears with such hatred and ignorance. I do however, read your texts Tami--just to see how low so-called Christians have sunk.

I have great respect for the man Jesus who worked amongst the poor and those on the margins of society. I think he would sink to his knees in horror hearing how he fine principles have been twisted into hatred and racism.

The only heartening thing I see on this blog is the number of people writing in to refute your small minded bigotry and the lunatic (hopefully) fringe that you represent.

tinker said...

Being a Christian, stay-at-home mother of two I was on the fence as to who I would be voting for, but I received a couple of an emails from friends and family. They are a mix of Republicans and Democrats and a couple like me undecided. They told me to do some research on my own, well I was kind of surprised to find out that Sarah Palin and her husband were friends with a man named Joe Vogler who didn't seem to like America too much. This was very surprising to me because of what has been said about Obama.
I've done a lot of research on Obama too and McCain and their voting records, because they accuse each other of not voting for something the other did.
We all have to do our own looking into these candidates. If you hear something or read something, check it out for yourself.

mountainmeli said...

I feel the need to genuinely applaud you, Tami. I applaud you for posting so many comments written by people who strongly disagree with you. It is your blog, you can get to decide which comments get posted. You could have decided to post only those comments that portrayed your party, your candidate and even you in a favorable light, but you haven't done that. That says something to me about your desire to at least encourage dialogue from both sides. Although I do not agree with some of your views or the manner in which you espouse them, I commend you for your courage to approve posts that disagree with you. Thank you.

Michael said...

And how can you support a woman whipping up hatred and divisiveness at her rallies by stoking the fears and hatred of close minded, uneducated white Americans? How is she going to bring "reform" to Washington when her executive "experience" entails violating Alaska's ethics laws? And don't fall back on the right wing talking points about some democrat-led powerplay in Alaska. She was investigated by a bipartisan, republican appointed legislature. I'm hoping you'll see the light in the coming weeks, but I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Christina said...

Michael,
"how can you support a woman whipping up hatred and divisiveness at her rallies"
Let me tell you... the ladies on this blog haved looked straight into the face of pure evil and anger and hatred this week. You have no idea of how many cruel, vile, threatening and disgusting emails have been pouring in and... these are from insane people who call themselves Obama supporters. So... before you continue to cast judgment on the conservative crowds, step back and examine your own.
Furthermore, my prayer is also that the blind shall see...
Pressing On,
~Christina

Christina said...

mountainmeli,
Your support speaks volumes!
Thanks for your encouragement!
Thanks,
Christina

Christina said...

"How can you republican Christians affiliate with a party that favors back alley coat-hanger abortions?"

We support life... and life begins at conception. If a pregnant person seeks to kill her child through means of a coat hanger, that's her own stupidity and choice. This chioce IS NOT supported by our party. Furthermore, she DOES have other choices to make. The first one is not to engage in acts that result in reproduction. The second choice is to give the baby to a loving home. The third is to keep the child, love him/her and consider this life a blessing.

Now for those who speak of rape and/or incest... This crime is horrible and devastating. I know. But... why inflict further pain and anguish on a completely innnocent child? Why not turn this horrific situation around? Give the blessing to a couple who is longing for one and in turn allow the baby to be blessed...

Pressing On,
Christina

Here's a view worth watching...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93cFOjDG-Ks

openmindedgal said...

I have a comment...I find it so ironic that because of Carl Rove all of a sudden Republicans and Christians are one in the same. I find it ironic that because of Carl Rove if you are a Democrat you can't be a christian. I find it ironic that because of Carl Rove the principals that our founding fathers built this nation on are no longer important...one is the SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

I find it ironic that if you are a Republican Christian that you can admit to being afraid to vote for someone with different religious values that you are not open hearted that you are judgmental, angry and racist...
I just find it ironic...
I just find it ironic.

PS. Jesus was a liberal jew!

Tami: Blog Creator and Administrator said...

wpc,

I know...that patriotic music hurts doesn't it?

thomas said...

Tami,

I wrote a very respectful response to Mary's post. It was from a different perspective as a Christian - a different perspective on the idea of which party might be more in line with the teachings of Christ. It was not vicious, had no profanity and expressed an alternate way to view these questions without trying to make you or Mary seem insincere or stupid. Nonetheless, you have chosen not to allow it to appear. II accept that this is your right as it certainly is your blog. I was only wondering if I had done something wrong, perhaps violated a rule without knowing it. I wouold be glad to try and make it acceptable. Please let me know if this is possible.

Thanks,

Thomas

Mary said...

I have been a christian for 29 years. For some of that time, I would've reported being "Pro-Choice". After all, isn't free-will God's idea in the first place?

The thing is, though, being a Christian who is pro-choice isn't about whether or not you "approve" or "support" abortion, or whether or not you would have one yourself.

The real question is, is this "zygote" a human life? I believe it is. And if I believe that this tiny little thing is a human being, than it becomes OBVIOUS to me that that life is precious and worthy of protection. That's it, bottom line: is human life valuable no matter what?

I can almost understand if people have an abortion who do not believe that pink line on the pregnancy test actually indicates a human being is in existance.

But I believe that is exaclty what it indicates. A life. And what happens when you take a life away?

If you believe that life begins at conception, or even up to 12 weeks, when many abortions are done, then shame on you for not doing something about the murder of those lives.

John said...

Thomas,

As you know, we've been getting a huge number of comments on this blog. So, we've been moderating out comments that take up a lot of space. I can't recall which comment you authored but if it got moderated out it was most likely due to its length. Also, comments that contain hyperlinks or web cite addresses usually get moderated out too. We'd be happy to post what you have to say, just try to be succinct. The process isn't always consistent but we try to be reasonable. Send in another comment. Have a great day.

thomas said...

John,

I appreciate your reply to my question about why my post was not published. Since it was respectful and contained no profanity and also no web links of any kind. It was longer than some here but shorter than others. I believe it addressed a number of issues raised by Mary's blog post and did so more thoroughly than many of the short, pithy, often irresponsible and pointless comments that do get published. I guess I thought my comments might be left out because the editors of the site did not like the content.

I will do a little editing and then try again. Once more, I appreciate the civil tone of your response and the time you took to make it.

Yours in Christ,

Thomas

Tami: Blog Creator and Administrator said...

Thomas

Thank you for your response, John is not able to respond further at this point. However--there are 3 people that moderate this blog. It is a conservative blog, and allowing Democrats to be heard here is a privelege, not a right. While we welcome seemingly sane people as yourself commenting here, you must understand the volume of comments we get on a daily basis--most of them from crazy people in the Obama camp. (and I do mean crazy)

So please do resubmit your comment. I will personally see to it that you are allowed a chance to express your opinions...however, I just wanted to make it very clear. Most sites shut down comments after a certain number. We have not done that yet.

Jenifer said...

In response to the previous comment that stated Jesus was a liberal Jew, you could not be more wrong. Jesus NEVER approached the Sanhedrin, never petitioned Caesar or the Roman Government to establish social programs for the benefit of the masses... He challenged the INDIVIDUAL to give freely of himself and his possessions for the poor and needy. And therein lies the difference. LESS government! More personal responsibilty! WE must help our neighbors and maybe then they won't be dependent on the Government for their survival!

Filius de Paulus said...

Jennifer
The problem is that the individual either cannot help or will not help, that's why the government (which is supposed to be us as a collective whole) must step in. If we had a king or queen maybe I would agree for less government but the philosophy of our society is of the people, BY the people, FOR the people, our government isn't some entity ruling over us, it is US as a collective whole helping out the minority.

thomas said...

My apology for accidentally numbering the Thou Shalt Not Kill commandment as the Ninth. It is of course the Sixth. As I was writing I was also using examples of the Ninth, which is Bearing False Witness. That is how the error was made.

Thomas

thomas said...

Tami,

I did not know where to post this but the Grobin version of the National Anthem was wonderful.

Thanks for putting it up there.

Thomas

Postergirl said...

Christina, you wrote "Now for those who speak of rape and/or incest... This crime is horrible and devastating. I know. But... why inflict further pain and anguish on a completely innnocent child?" An embryo does not feel pain nor anguish. The problem I have with the pro-life movement isn't the view that life starts at conception or that every single pregnancy should be carried to term. A person who believes that should of course never abort. But you, as Republicans who supposedly favor less government, want this issue to be decided by government. The federal government now is protecting every woman in every state from being FORCED to carry a pregnancy to term, regardless of the circumstance. It does not force anyone to have an abortion! If it it went to the States, there is still government, and that government WOULD force a woman to carry to term. In other words, the government would decide, rather than a doctor and the woman, that she MUST carry to term. That is the ultimate intrusion of Government into our personal lives.

I would never scream at a pro-life person that they must abort, but pro-life people scream at women whose lives they know nothing about. And if abortion was illegal? What should be the punishment, exactly, for the woman? Carry this to its logical conclusion and expand on the repercussions. NO ONE I've asked who is pro-life has ever been able or willing to fully answer this question. The most I've heard is 'let the laws stand as they are'. That is a cop out. Does that mean the death penalty for a woman who has an abortion... because it is, in your eyes, premeditated murder, isn't it? So go on from there, give me the scenarios of how a suspected abortion would be investigated for example? Please let this post stand - I know no one personally who is pro-life and I am really curious about the reasoning behind driving for laws that would forbid it. I totally understand it as a personal belief, and I respect it as such, but it's the role of government in deciding this that really, really troubles me.
Silou